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History of the Historical Text Archive

Things happen historically, not logically. To understand how the HTA was started, you have to understand my involvement with electronic mail. I got involved in computer telecomuncations for history because my elder son studied in Marburg, Germany in 1988-1989, and I learned to use electronic mail so that we could communicate on a regular basis without cost. We used BITNET because that was the e-mail system open to me at Mississippi State University and to him at Phillips University. I also joined some discussion lists, including HISTORY@FINHUTC, which had been organized by a student in Finland, Joni Makivirta (pictured at left). I didn't know that Joni was a student and I didn't care. I had found a way to communicate daily with others interested in history. Yes, there was silliness on the list. I worked around it or tried to get the list back on track when it deviated too much. The discussions varied. The members varied in circumstance; some were students; some were historians; and some from other professions. There were Jim Cocks, computer technician at the University of Louisville, Skip Knox at Boise State, Haines Brown of Central Connecticut State University, Charles Dell, at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, Michael McCarthy, an undergraduate at Marshall University, Christopher Currie of the Institure for Historical Research, and George Welling. There was an underlying current among the professors that the list could be more than it was. Mark Olsen of the University of Chicago eloquently expressed that concern. I tried to address some of those concerns in a May, 1989 message. That elicited specific calls for reform. I thought about ways to make computer telecommunications more useful, but my commitments to publishing on the Latin American drug trade kept me too busy. It was Richard Jensen, then of the University of Illinois at Chicago, who made the difference. He had been trying in the first half of 1989 to get me to organize what we were calling Clionet. As I said at the time, I was too busy to take the challenge. Eventually Jensen would create H-NET .

In 1989, I also became concerned by the inability of historians to move large files by e-mail; or, at least, for some historians to do so. In response to some discussion on HISTORY@FINHUTC (I don't remember the exact nature of it), in December, 1989 I had sent a file on French socialism via e-mail. That caused some stir among some of the participants. I was criticized severely by some of them. Although I offered what I thought was an effective defense and I had support from others, the criticism was deserved. Some people had quotas on their accounts and my mailing burst them. Others were not interested in receiving what I had sent. The solution was to store the files where a person could get them when desired. So I learned about File Transfer Protocol. Late in 1990 I wrote an article for Perspectives of the American Historical Association. When it appeared early in 1991, professional historians came onto the 'Net in droves. I officially created an FTP site (RA) in February, 1991. I was able to get some help. I also tried to get others to do the same thing because I realized that one site could not store everything . Lynn Nelson (pictured) volunteered, and was up and running by August, 1991. We began to divide the load. And we were off and running. RA grew by leaps and bounds as I found new things to store there. Some were sent to me by others. Christopher Currie of the Victoria County History project of the University of London sent me an article on medieval carpentry[I refer you to his revised version which has photos, something not possible when we first did it.] and Art Ferrill sent me several articles on ancient military history, for example. I had to subdivide into directories. By September 1, 1991, the filelist on RA had grown considerably.

The effort to create other sites began in 1991 but accelerated after Thomas Zielke's important paper on "History at Your Fingertips" and my own paper on anonymous FTP sites, both delivered at the Mid-America Conference in September, 1992 (Thomas was in Germany and I was in Mississippi. We chatted in the background while awaiting our turns), things progressed rapidly. One remembers Valentine Smith and his Soviet archives in Kansas City, Mike McCarthy and his Byrd site at Marshall University, George Welling (pictured with guitar) with Gheta at Groningen in Holland, and others that Lynn mentions below. I spent a lot of time trying to get people to create FTP and/or gopher sites (I discovered gopher sites in 1991 and the WWW in Jerusalem in early 1992. RA grew as did the other sites, but I couldn't pay as much attention to history telecommunications as I wanted because I became an associate dean in August, 1991. I had to devote my energies to saving the University's humanities programs and a science program in the face of the efforts of a reactionary committee's efforts to make Mississippi State University into a trade school. That one of the perpetrators was a dear friend made the process more painful. We won but I slept only 4 hours a night for six months. Lynn Nelson had to be the pioneer in finding a way to hook them all together through HNSource.

In retrospect, I was right on target about a number of issues: that colleges and universities would incorporate computer telecommuications into their fixed costs; that this would become a prime means of scholarly communications; and that large files would routinely be moved around. Today, files are routinely large; e-mail quotas virtually don't exist; and we have distributed resources as a routine matter. Who would have thought it ten years ago when I began fiddling with e-mail and trying to protect myself from colleagues who thought I was wasting my time? Even they use e-mail and the Web!

I've taken the liberty to quote from a letter that Lynn Nelson wrote about my role in computer telecommunications for historians and what we had accomplised before the Web.

"He was, of course, the builder and maintainer of RA, and was highly regarded if only for that accomplishment. RA was the first, and at the time the only, File Transfer Protocol (FTP) site for historians. His file of instructions on using FTP was widely distributed both here and abroad, and historians began to learn from it how to utilize the information that he was collecting there for their use.

Together with Thomas Zielke, of Oldenburg University (Germany), Don organized the effort by which members of HISTORY@FINHUTC established, in the space of two months, twenty new discussion lists for historians, each devoted to a specific topic. All twenty are still in operation, with a total membership well in excess of twenty thousand. He also encouraged and guided me in the construction of MALIN, a second FTP site for historians, and we began to work on means of integrating our two sites as a "seamless" whole.

Meanwhile, with Don's constant interest and involvement, and with the help of the LYNX development team here at the University of Kansas, I completed the project he and I had begun, that of developing a means of linking distant sites into effective wholes. Don had the pride of place and, in March of 1993, demonstrated the facility as the center-piece of a talk delivered to the members and sraff of the Institute of Historical Research on the University of London. The facility was HNSOURCE, which, I am told, was the first information server in the world. The Institute was anxious to construct a similar site, as was the National University of Australia. By July of that 1993, these sites were operative, and we set the links that united them, RA and MALIN, into a single network. By the end of the year, BYRD and GHETA, two new FTP sites, and CLASSICS, another information server, had joined, and GRENET, a French site was coming on-line. In November of 1992, Don had suggested that our ultimate goal should be the construction of a world-wide network connecting all the various electronic facilities of use to historians -- ftp, telnet, gopher, and others. In the midst of his other responsibilities, he had somehow found the time to set in motion the development of these new sites. By November of 1993, we had achieved Don's "ultimate" goal.

I apologize for the length of this discussion of Don's activities in the area of computer telecommunications, but the World-Wide Web has caught public attention to such a degree that many people do not realize that there was a good deal of work on the Internet before the Web existed. As a matter of fact, when CERN and NSCA announced that the Web was operational, they found that a well developed historian's network already existed and invited it to join the Web. HNSOURCE became History, the World-Wide Web Virtual Library's maintainer for the subject History, and spun off a series of specialized sites. The Australian server became COOMBSWEB, the WWW-VL maintainer for social science and the center of a massive complex of Australian servers. CLASSICS formed the platform on which the Perseus project was built, and RA, GHETA, and others became award-winning Web sites. (As an aside, Don has continued to develop RA in his "spare" time, and it is now regarded as the primary data base for African and Latin American materials.)

I suppose that someone will eventually write a history of the development of computer telecommunications as a medium and will be struck by the fact that historians seem to have led the way in many ways. If he is curious enough to look into the matter, he will discover the crucial importance of Don's leadership."

In 1998, I began to expand the Historical Text Archives beyond the Mississippi State University server. The HTA has never been an official part of the University. It simply gave me personal Web space just as it gives Web space to students, staff, and other faculty members. The support and supportive comments came from Computing Center (now Systems and Networks) personnel. The Department of History has not understood the Web and what I was doing; I have received no support from that quarter.

It makes no difference where the files are stored, of course. In 1998, I moved some material on Hungarian history to www.fortunecity.com. In 1999, I moved much of the site to www.geocities.com/djmabry/. By April, 2000, I had moved completely off the Mississippi State University server onto different servers in the world. This arrangement works reasonably well. In February, 2001, I had my own domain and server, historicaltextarchive.com, which promises to be much better for users and for me.

Ironically, as Director of the Institute for the Humanities at Mississippi State University, I was able to arrange a six-month internship for one of George Welling's graduate students; a side benefit has been that he has been helping me with the HTA. Just in time for my retirement from Mississippi State on June 30, 2003!

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2044; Fri, 19 May 89 19:14:25 CDT

Date: Fri, 19 May 89 09:40:00 EST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: Martin Ryle

Subject: Re: RE: Death of the list?

To: don mabry

Prof. Mabry's question about whether France could have emerged as a modern state without her

revolution is provocative. The issue would seem to reside in our definition of "modern state,"

which I should think would require a shift from subject to citizen, from landed to liquid wealth,

from realm to nation, and other such changes. That the revolution accompanied these shifts

seems to be beyond dispute, and it is probably helpful to think of the shifts as the essence of the

revolution. The particulars of political conflict, violence, war, and speculation were the result of

the specific reactions of specific persons and groups to the radical changes that French society

was undergoing.

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2329; Fri, 19 May 89 21:29:38 CDT

Date: Fri, 19 May 89 13:29:49 EDT

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: R3KEZ@AKRONVM

To: don mabry

To: Bill Robie

Like any other discipline, there are those who specialize in a specific area which has particular

interest. In the case of Women's History or Black History I believe that they have been neglected

sufficiently to warrant a seperate study.

The rest of the issue hinges, at least in my mind, on whether the isolation of such subjects is

voluntary and if not, does the isolation encourage a strong and unnatural bias to emerge in the

research?

There are also some other things which I must consider before saying more -

namely, whether the development of a distinct branch of history, such as Publishing History or

Railroad History, must naturally produce biases - any ideas?

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2462; Fri, 19 May 89 21:53:08 CDT

Date: Fri, 19 May 89 14:23:32 EDT

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: R3KEZ@AKRONVM

To: don mabry

Doctor Mabry,

Your regards delivered to Grant, et al, though the department is rather dead during the

intersession. I hope to be able to send you some info on Women in printing and publishing within

the next few weeks. Most of the data was obtained from primary sources, but there were a few

secondar sources which I will bring up as soon as I can locate my paper.

My interest is in Italian Renaissance silversmithing techniques for polishing, deburring, etc.

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2544; Fri, 19 May 89 22:44:51 CDT

Date: Fri, 19 May 89 16:07:00 EST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: "ALEC PLOTKIN [OWNER-NOVA LAXHEADS]" <185422285@VUVAXCOM>

Subject: Help

To: don mabry

If anybody knows a good history of baseball could you please send me the name. Thanks

Alec Plotkin Mgr.

1:>Would ALec Plotkin contact me directly regarding his question about

2:>a history of baseball. The userid I received doesn't work.

3:>@eof

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2714; Sat, 20 May 89 00:48:07 CDT

Date: Thu, 18 May 89 10:43:25 CST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

Comments: Please Acknowledge Receipt

From: Z4648252

Subject: Texas woman in history

To: don mabry

I'm not actively working in women's history either, but Texas has

rich folklore and myths. Trying to pull the truth out is not really that

difficult.

For example, the "mother" of Texas is considered to be Janes Long.

The following is the circumstance:

A dentist named Dr. James Long arrived in Texas in 1819 during June.

He and his force of 200 men occupied the present day city of Nacogdoches

(where I am typing this!!!) and the Stone Fort, which is a 'tourist trap'

today. He declared Texas to be independent from Spain, or more specifically, New Spain

(Mexico).

He left the area to pick up supplies and brought his wife, Jane Long

and her black servant girl, Kian. This was during the year 1820. They

arrived with a large armed force and set up a fort on the coast at Port

Bolivar. By this time, New Spain authorities were becoming alarmed, sent

a force to La Bahia where Long and his men journeyed (he left Jane and Kian

at Bolivar) and captured them. Dr. Long was executed.

Wife Jane and Kian decided to remain at Port Bolivar, surviving on

fish and what other seafoods they could obtain, and using a cannon to keep

curious Karankawa Indians from coming near them(1). When she learned of

Long's fate, Jane Long rode horseback to Mexico in an effort to have her

husband's murderers punished(2).

For Texans, Jane Long is considered the Mother of Texas, but to be

more exact Kian should be considered the Black Mother of Texas. Kian

remained loyal to Jane throughout the duration and declined any offer of

freedom. It is unfortunate that Kian is rarely mentioned.

Note that the references come from: All Hail the Mighty State: TEXAS.

by Archie P. McDonald. Pages 47-49.

1: From your note, one must assume that Texas in this context means Texas

the independent nation. Otherwise, one would have to look for a

4:>chicana or an Amerind as the "mother."

5:>Isn't the historian's proper viewpoint that there is no "mother" or

6:>"father" in such instances? That parentage is an inappropriate

7:>paradigm?

8:>@eof

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 2743; Sat, 20 May 89 05:26:03 CDT

Date: Thu, 18 May 89 14:09:00 EDT

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: J_CERNY@UNHH

Subject: Following up on Mark Olsen.

To: don mabry

I just want to follow up on Mark Olsen's remarks. While interested in

history, I'm not in any way a historian by training or profession. I

subscribe to HISTORY out of general curiosity and as our BITNET

Inforep to keep up my awareness of things others on campus might want

to know about.

Toward that end, the other day I finally detected enough interest in

BITNET in our History Department that I arranged a custom session to

tell them about BITNET and show hands-onthem how to access it, salting

the examples with some recent items from HISTORY and HUMANIST.

These people all use computers, but they use PCs, not our large

systems. Some use Macintoshes and some DOS PCs So there are several

thresholds (barriers) they encounter before they can really begin to

make BITNET use a regular part of their professional activity.

They have to use a terminal emulator to get to our large system (node

UNHH, named "Hilbert"). They have to learn a little bit about VAX/VMS

MAIL. They do not have to learn a VAX/VMS editor, but the whole

process becomes much, much easier if they can. None of these is a big

deal, but for a historian who is already very busy, they can

cumulatively serve to keep BITNET at arm's length.

I suspect we are representative in this situation, not unique.

Jim Cerny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

/\__/

/ |

/ |

James W. Cerny / |

MicroVAX Support Manager and / | D=University of NH,

Newsletter Publisher / | Durham campus.

University Computing / | K=Keene State College

Hamilton Smith Hall / | M=University of NH,

University of New Hampshire / P | Manchester campus.

Durham, NH 03824 | P=Plymouth State College

/ |

(603)-862-3058 / |__

BITNET: J_CERNY@UNHH | K D |

UUCP: ... uunet!unh!jwc M _|

\______________/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Received: by UA1VM (Mailer

R2.03B) id 2795; Sat, 20 May 89 05:32:37 CDT

Date: Fri, 19 May 89 20:11:00 EST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: Martin Ryle

Subject: Re: Relevency....(or lack thereof)

To: don mabry

Re Donald Mabry's comments about historians doing ourselves in. Whenever one of my

colleagues calls upon the example of Munich to justify intransigence

toward the Soviet Union, I feel obliged to charge the benighted soul with

incompetence. If history does not teach us to get the facts straight, judge

each circumstance in its own context, and avoid simplistic application of

"lessons" learned from the past, then history teaches nothing worthwhile.

Martin Ryle

Professor of History

University of Richmond, VA

Ryle@urvax.urich.edu

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 3666; Sat, 20 May 89 19:37:36 CDT

Date: Sat, 20 May 89 20:23:21 EST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: Morris Fried

To: don mabry

In-Reply-To: Message of Wed,

17 May 89 05:16:44 CDT from

Prof. Olsen's comments are accurate and to the point. His message points the way to a more

appropriate use of this medium; until now, except for one or two others, only Professor Mabry's

comments and suggestions have been stimulating to a sociologist with a serious interest in and

commitment to history, and historical thought. A combination of technical advice and theoretical suggestions would be marvelous. Let's not bury the list yet, please.

And now that I've only just heard about the Humanist list, can someone tell me how to subscribe

to that?

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 3606; Sat, 20 May 89 17:44:52 CDT

Date: Sat, 20 May 89 18:33:00 EDT

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: "Peter D. Junger"

Subject: Royal progresses

To: don mabry

A colleague of mine would like to find a short description

of English 'Royal progresses.' I believe that he is particularly

interested in the economic consequences of having a medieval court

drop in for dinner.

Thank you.

Peter Junger--CWRU Law School--Cleveland,

OH--JUNGER@CWRU--JUNGER@CWRU.CWRU.EDU

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 3798; Sat, 20 May 89 23:06:17 CDT

Date: Sat, 20 May 89 23:49:43 LCL

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: Karen Vogeley

Subject: Merely a personal interest

To: don mabry

Would anyone be able to recommend a good biography of Margaret,

Countess of Salisbury? She had an interesting life, which was ended

by Henry VIII.

Thanks.

*

* History

*

* Review= Public Subscription= Open Send= Public

* Notify= No Reply-to= List,Respect Files= Yes

* Ack= No FormCheck= No X-Tags= Comment

* Notebook= Yes,G,Separate,Public

* Validate= Store only

* Mail-via= Dist2

* LoopCheck= NoToCount

* Errors-To = Owner

*

* Owner= MAKIVIRT@FINJYU (Joni Makivirta)

*

* The meaning of this list is to discuss about history as a science,

* computers and historians, cultural development, cultural differences,

* and philosophy. HISTORY wants to be a discussion forum for historians

* and bring history closer to other sciences.

*

R3KEZ@AKRONVM Karl E. Ziellenbach

arpalists+HISTORY@ANDREW.CMU.EDU Andrew Message System

A4422DAE@AWIUNI11 KONRAD NEUWIRTH

A7171GAA@AWIUNI11 Thomas Wiltner

Z00WYR01@AWIUNI11 Rudolf WYTEK

NETNEWS@BLEKUL11 netnews usenet

VILSON@BRFAPESP VILSON SARTO

TV9751@BROCK1P TOM VERSO

HISTODST@BROWNVM Brown Local Dist.

DONWEBB@CALSTATE Donald P. Webb

GLTKUHN@CALSTATE Larry Kuhn

PSAAAF5@CALSTATE Jim O'Linger

COM3RAE@CLUSTR.TRENT.AC.UK Simon Rae

3IJEF26@CMUVM CHARLES E. CARLSON.

FECTEAU@CUA Claude G. Fecteau

MCCARTHY@CUAVAXB WILLIAM MCCARTHY

blumberg@CUNIXD.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU roger b. blumberg

JUNGER@CWRU PETER D. JUNGER

WOOLF@DALAC Daniel Woolf

UPG202@DBNRHRZ1 Axel Wupper

GALGAZI@DGOGWDG1 Gadi Algazi

ZHSF@DK0ZA1 "Ralph Ponemereo"

113355@DOLUNI1 Thomas Zielke

170186@DOLUNI1 thorsten mack

HIROBIE@ECUVM1 WILLIAM ROBIE

MAKIVIRT@FINJYU joni makivirta

TOSINE@FINJYU STUDENT MAGAZINE IN JYVASKYLA. SEND STORIE

HIST-MK@FINOU martin kusch

HIS-JK@FINTUVM Jaakko Kankaanp{{

KALLIOKO@FINUHA Matti Kalliokoski

PONTINEN@FINUHA SEPPO PONTINEN

BRINNEL@FRSUN12 Heiner Brinnel

MARK@GIDE.UCHICAGO.EDU MARK OLSEN

LIBRSPE@GWUVM Matthew Gilmore

UW641C@GWUVM Bob Tolchin

CHAYWARD@HAMPVMS CYNTHIA M, HAYWARD @ HAMPSHIRE COLLEGE

RCDILAA@HDETUD1 Hans van der Laan

RCIVJAN@HDETUD1 Jan Snoek

AIBM002@ICINECA Alex Martelli

C312-004@IRLEARN jim duffy

C312-016@IRLEARN Eddie O'Loughlin.

DOHERTYC@IRLEARN Charles Doherty

HICKC89@IRLEARN Vivien Hick

MORRSC89@IRLEARN Deirdre Morrissey

STCS8013@IRUCCVAX Humphrey Sorensen

STOTTNER@JCUVAX "What? Me Worry?"

STOTTNER@JCVAXA "Joe Stottner"

mbb@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU Malcolm Brown

ACS_JAME@JMUVAX1 JAMES W. WILSON

FAC_MGAL@JMUVAX1 MICHAEL J. GALGANO

BI8030@JPNKISCI Kentarou Gotou

BI8035@JPNKISCI shite kazu

WINCHELL@KENTVM jan winchell

FKAFKA@KSUVM Gregory T. Davis

MARK@LIUVAX MARK CARTER

STAFFORD@LIUVAX M. STAFFORD

RAS370@MAINE William TeBrake

RPY383@MAINE COLIN MARTINDALE

DJMABRY@MSSTATE don mabry

JAYRICHY@MSSTATE Jay Ritchie

CHADANT@MUN CHADANT@MUN.BITNET T.CHADWICK

MNEWTON@MUN MICHAEL NEWTON

THRA004@MVS.ULCC.AC.UK C.R.J. Currie

UD165202@NDSUVM1 Nathan Irwin

DDAHM@NEUVM1 Hans Joergen Marker

KLA@NIHCU Karen La Paglia

FAFKH@NOBERGEN Knut Hofland

HKLRP@NOBERGEN Richard Holton Pierce

ANGIE@NTIVAX ANGIE YIP

FZINN@OBERLIN GROVER ZINN

HSW100U@ODUVM Dr. Wilson

DAVID@PENNDRLS R. David Murray

JYM@PSUARCH Joe Matyaz

BCJ@PSUVM

WHV@PSUVM Bill Verity

RICH@PUCC Richard Giordano

SHUCHANG@PUCC SHU-MING CHANG

0632281@PUCC Tom Nimick

JOHNFOX@RCN john fox

NRCGSH@RITVAXD NORMAN COOMBS

ACAD8044@RYERSON PATRICIA MOONEY

GBARROS@SETONVM Keith A. Barros

Z4648252@SFAUSTIN Larry Rymal

ASIEVERS@SMITH Ann Sievers

KVOGELEY@SUVM Karen Vogeley

CM5@TAUNIVM shmuel orenbuch

RONEN1@TAUNIVM RONEN SHAPIRA

PA126318@TECMTYVM Alfredo Delgado-Garza

KENAN@TRBOUN Tulug KENANOGLU

OEBL8717@TREARN ibrahim hur

GRFG001@TWNMOE10 robert wu

GM06091@UAFSYSB Gerald Wayne McCollum

LOIS@UCF1VM Lois Buwalda

HISTORY@UCIVMSA "UC Irvine"

FRIED@UCONNVM FRIED@UCONNVM Morris Fried

MAD01014@UFRJ Sergio T. Balaj

CHRIS@UKCC Chris Corman

RHORER@UKCC Marc Rhorer

STEVE@UKCC Steve Thomson

ARKEAR01@ULKYVM Anna Kearney

C225789@UMCVMB nick davis

C476721@UMCVMB bill ball

TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1 Thomas More Beaudoin

GUEDON@UMTLVR JEAN-CLAUDE GUEDON

UJEFF1@UNC JEFF HASMANN

UNELSON@UNC SCOTT NELSON

UNLSON@UNC SCOTT NELSON

JAPENNY@UNCG jim penny

J_CERNY@UNHH Jim Cerny -- Univ. N.H.

ATSDJR@UOFT01 Donna J. Rostetter

ATSPFM@UOFT01 Pat Mercurio

UOG91026@UOGUELPH martin agnew

J_CARROL@UPRENET JOE CARROLL

RYLE@URVAX "martin Ryle"

F0A8@USOUTHAL James B. McSwain

S_RICHMOND@UTOROISE SHELDON RICHMOND

HISTORY@UWPG02 David Bell

CAPTAIN@UWYO MARK OLIVER

A_BODDINGTON@VAX.ACS.OPEN.AC.UK Andy Boddington

LOU@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK Lou Burnard

ECOMMAG@VAXA.HW.AC.UK Mark Gray

P.Adman@VME.CC.HULL.AC.UK peter adman

E.Mawdsley@VME.GLASGOW.AC.UK Evan Mawdsley

L.M.Richmond@VME.GLASGOW.AC.UK LESLEY RICHMOND

N.J.Morgan@VME.GLASGOW.AC.UK Nicholas Morgan

edt@VTCOSY.CNS.VT.EDU Ed Tuthill

BLNKNSHP@VTVM1 L. A. Blankenship

ERDT@VUVAXCOM "TERRENCE ERDT"

18542228@VUVAXCOM ALEC PLOTKIN

HOFFMAN_E@WABASH "Eric Hoffman"

JKASIOWN@WAYNEST1 Jerry Kasiowniak

SEN%SIMON%WUGATE%WUGATE@WUGATE.WUSTL K. C. Sen

UN023077@WVNVAXA BRUCE MACISAAC

ELINZE@YALEVM Naama Zahavi-Ely

MKELLER@YALEVM michael keller

BRIANW@YORKVM2 "Brian Whittaker"

*

* Total number of "concealed" subscribers: 1

* Total number of users subscribed to the list: 136 (non-"concealed" only)

* Total number of local node users on the list: 0 (non-"concealed" only)

*

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 6979; Thu, 18 May 89 12:37:06 CDT

Date: Wed, 17 May 89 05:16:44 CDT

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: Mark Olsen

To: don mabry

The HISTORY list has produced an amazing amount of garbage that, speaking buntly, is not only pointless but embarassing to historians. The numerous attempts to stimulate conversation by making inflamatory comments about national characteristics or posing hypothetical and unanswerable questions are certainly not indicative of the caliber of thought that one typically encounters in historical research. The problem is that the list was started without focus and without a defined consistuency. A comparison to the very sucessful HUMANIST list might be helpful.

I was at the meeting where HUMANIST was formed. It was clear that the main focus was computer applications in the very broadly defined discipline called "humanities". The binding ethic allows individuals from very diverse backgrounds to communicate sensibly about topics of importance. Not only are there broad discussions of "purpose" and opinion, but a VERY important exchange of technical information, ranging from the availability of data to programming problems. HUMANIST also boasts an impressive array of individuals willing to share technical knowledge and provide advice on other research and teaching matters. What attracts scholars and teachers to HUMANIST is the clear definition of what is being discussed and the application of the information exchanged to their work. I have learned -- as a French revolutionary historian and review editor for _Computers and the Humanities_ -- a lot from HUMANIST that applies to my work; frequently this information comes from people whose direct research interests are very far removed from mine. A clearer defintion of what HISTORY is would help stimulate useful exchanges.

As an historian, I have been particularly depressed about the failure of historians to develop networks to exhange information. It is not that historians are not doing good work with computers. Indeed, looking at the journals _Social Science History_ or _Journal of Interdisciplinary History_, or _Historical Methods_ would suggest that historians have more than "humanists" to talk about regarding computer applications in history. Part of the problem is institutional in that there is no one place where computer applications in history can be discussed.

Further, there is no "repository" of machine-readible datasets, with the exception of Michigan's consortium. Another major problem is the limitation of "computer applications" in history to SPSS or SAS stats applications. Database design should be a CENTRAL concern to historians of all kinds. Full text systems and applications should be of interest to intellectual historians. The failure of historians to grasp computers in a fashion that goes beyond statistical methods is suggested by the fact that there has not been a single instruction level text on _Computers and History_ since Shorter's in the early 70s. Indeed, the only general survey is the recent conference proceedings from England, which stressed the diversity, but not points of contact, of historical research and teaching. My disappointment, as an historian, is also found in that there are VERY few working historians on HUMANIST and very few who are found at more general computing conferences.

I would like to propose that the HISTORY list consider focusing its discussion more clearly on a limited number of topics. My vote would be to parallel, in some ways, HUMANIST's concentration on computer applications in humanities research and teaching. HISTORY could serve as a clearing house for technical information and advice on a broad number of issues. If it grows in the same way as HUMANIST, HISTORY could become a very valuable source for exchange of information concerning exiting data sets, ongoing research projects, historical software, and so on. This would not "prohibit" more general discussions, but would focus the comments and add some needed direction to the list.

Thanks for letting me vent my spleen.

Mark Olsen
ARTFL
University of Chicago

May 25, 1989

IN RE HISTORY

Our colleagues from Chicago and Princeton not only complained about the nature of some messages on HISTORY but made some important suggestions about how the list could be improved. Fundamentally, of course, they raised the issue of the *function* of HISTORY.

I strongly agree that sending flames in the hopes of provoking messages on the list is inappropriate and counterproductive. Name calling, in whatever form, is almost always counterproductive, even when it does prompt one to respond to the name caller.

Discussing historical events, however, is something different. Through such discussions one can gain a different (and perhaps better) understanding of those events. The issue of revolution is a case in point. The French Revolution is being celebrated with much hoopla this year but often without pointing out its ramifications. Since almost all of us are children of the French Revolution, we tend to view it uncritically. That is, we often look at political events as turning points while ignoring the economic changes taking place. Changes in the means of production in the 18th century certainly produced social and political change.

The information provided about Canadian history was very valuable, especially to those of us who know little Canadian history. That information came as a result of a question on the French Revolution.

In my opinion, one important function of HISTORY is to enable historians and those interested in history to have such discussions.

Should HISTORY become another HUMANIST? The latter is an excellent source of information on a variety of hardware and software issues, although not all of those discussed are useful to historians. Nevertheless, historians can subscribe to HUMANIST and learn; there is no real need to duplicate HUMANIST.

What we could use, as Olsen points out, are discussions of computer application problems of utility to historians. One can hope that Olsen or someone else will help us on this. Richard Jensen uses HISTORY and could contribute much in this regard.

HISTORY, however, should not be just for quantitative or social science historians.

Three important elements need to be added to HISTORY to give it the broadest possible utility.

(1) A directory of historians with their e-mail addresses and research fields.
(2) A directory of archivists with their e-mail addresses.
(3) A directory of archival collections accessible via e-mail.

A directory of historians should be more comprehensive than the membership list of HISTORY. We would benefit by knowing the research field(s) of each person. We would want included historians other than those on HISTORY. Many of us know such historians and, with their permission, include them on a directory.

Similarly, a directory of archivists should be created. This directory might include some information about the archivist's particular responsibilities. That is, if the archivist manages early nineteenth century Vermont papers but know little about 20th century collections, it would help those who would want to contact the archivist. Being able to communicate directly with an archivist before one makes the trek would be an important service to historical research and writing.

There are more data archives than the Michigan consortium. We have heard from Joergen in Denmark. There are medieval archives in Belgium and New Jersey (Rutgers). There must be others. What we need is a directory of archival collections accessible by e-mail.

Were we not having increasing difficulty in maintaining our link connections, I might volunteer to serve as a clearinghouse for the creation of these three items. But, even as I write, I am not sure when our link will be up again.

Could Joni and others at FINHUTC start this project? I am willing to forward some ideas developed by Richard Jensen and me to anyone willing to take on the project.

Received: by UA1VM (Mailer R2.03B) id 6150; Fri, 02 Jun 89 17:49:07 CDT

Date: Tue, 30 May 89 14:12:00 EST

Reply-To: History

Sender: History

From: STOTTNER@JCUVAX

Subject: RE: History Potential & stuff

To: don mabry

May 30, 1989

I agree with Dr. Mabry's proposals for the History list.

We had a member list before, but that has fallen to the

wayside. Perhaps if it were mandatory that a person submit an

ID file when joining (and notified when they were leaving) the

list, then an updated journal could be kept. If we could

have a central address where such materials could be sent for

processing and where suggestions and/or problems could be

handled, so much the better for our group (e.g. at FINHUTC).

The History list has great potential. Archival work is

a given in the social science fields, and a network of

scholars, antiquarians, professors, administrators, and

interested amateurs would comprise a formidable body of

information, references, and clues. The list can offer the

possibilities of beginning long list and off-list discussions

between interested parties.

Discussion on the list should not be downplayed! Various

and widely ranged topics are what give this list real life,

anybody who is in at least some sense a historian would be

captivated by at least some of the postings and would desire

their continuance. Two issues, however, do have to be addressed:

1.) Let's stop the multiple postings of the same

message, while it isn't a major problem, there isn't any

need for it.

2.) Personality conflicts should not be settled on this

list. Phone the other person, visit them, write them,

SEND them via ordinary mail, whatever, but this is not

the place for such behavior.

If anyone has any suggestions and/or topics, I would be

glad to hear them. If Joni and the others at FINHUTC need

help, then I invite them to ask me, or better yet to send

mail to the list regarding their view of the current state of

affairs. Hey, everybody, remember: this list is supposed to

be fun and informative - let's make it so!

-Joe

Date: Mon, 8 May 89 01:17 EST

From: RICHARD JENSEN

Subject: Re: email

To: DJMABRY@MSSTATE

Original_To: Jnet%"DJMABRY@MSSTATE"

Original_cc: CAMPBELD

The whole world can trek to Mississippi State, via e-mail. (HUMANIST put Toronto on the map....not quite). --the way to do it is get official support first. Ask your administration for

1) official support

2) free computer time (which they give anyway)

3) some released time or summer pay for yourself

4) a part-time student assistant

5) some fancy computer gear that can be dedicated to an email system (about $5000)

6) a telephone & printing budget ($600)

There's nothing that beats ild-fashioned publication so much as support from the administration. They probably want to be on the world map. --you might also go national: endorsement from the AHA quantification committee looks nice, though it means zip

National Endowment for Humanities would be willing to spend $15,000 for a national (international) HUMANIST-style network for historians. --free advice anytime.... seriously, I'm keen on the idea & would be delighted to help.

Date: Mon, 8 May 89 03:55 EST

From: RICHARD JENSEN

Subject: clionet

To: djmabry@msstate

Original_To: JNET%"djmabry@msstate"

further thoughts:

May 8, 1989 CLIONET brainstorm Richard Jensen

bitnet address = CAMPBELD@IUBACS

A. 5000+ historians currently own their own PCs, and can be

networked together by CLIONET

1. CLIONET would be one of 100+ user groups on BITNET, which connects most academic mainframes in US and Europe.

a) cost of BITNET use = zero

b) cost of access for a historian = cost of local phone call to campus computer; plus cost of modem

1) can be used by terminals on campus, without PC

2. several hundred historians now use e-mail, in esultory fashion (mostly for intra-campus communication)

3. communications programs are free (come with modem, or sold

for $5 thru user groups, campus computer centers)

a) recommended: PROCOM

B. CLIONET would provide

1. linkages to community of scholars

2. ideas, help, tips on software, hardware problems & innovations

3. bulletin board service for

a) exchange of generalities

b) announcements re archives, conferences, conventions, job openings, fellowships, lectures, workshops

c) identification of subcommunities of interest, to create mailing lists or initiate 1-1 contacts

d) news of members

4. downloadable long files

a) tables of contents of forthcoming journals, conventions, conference programs

b) reports on new archival accessions

c) publisher announements; new books; book sales

d) utility shareware programs for general purpose

e) software written by historians

f) mailing lists of special interest groups

C. Advantages of CLIONET

1. very fast turnaround time (24 hours, vs 2 months+ for newsletters, even more for journals)

a) or 1 year for convention

b) thus many messages of short-term usefulness that are now disseminated poorly will become widely available

1) eg lectures, workshops open to public

2) paper-matching for conventions

2. democratic access

a) many new contacts with likeminded scholars far away

3. exhilirating sense of participation in telecommunication & computer frontier

4. e-mail psychology: much more brainstorming, esp of short thoughts; less formality than snailmail letters; much less than letters to editor

D. Future of CLIONET

1. special interest groups set up own networks

a) e.g. women's history, diplomatic, French etc

2. electronic publishing of bibliographical lists of recent articles, books, dissertations

a) much more likely

b) now in hard copy in JAH, JSH, WHQ; AHA's Recent Arts, etc

c) electronic listings can be browsed, searched, downloaded

3. electronic publshing of reviews, articles: very unlikely

E. organization

1. somebody has to run it

a) needs support from home university

1) approval for use of computers

2) like a student assistant; telephone $

b) needs professional endorsements (easy)

c) might get NEH $ (harder)

d) need BITNET approval (EASY)

2. need 20-30 "regulars" who will supply material regularly

3. need 200-300 "irregulars" who want the mail to arrive automatically in the e-mail boxes, & will read it, pass it along to colleagues

some userids:
gwuvm::horton
cwru::reiff
uhnix2.uh.edu::hist9
uicvm::U09183
uicvm::U08946
msstate::djmabry
uclasscf::rhericm
uta3081::hiaq635
brownuvm::hi500005
brownuvm::hi700000
csd4.milw.wisc.edu::shammas uicvm::U11294
uicvm::U32798
uicvm::U28330
jhuvms::lombardi

Defense December 28, 1989

It was not until our link came up last night that I was able to read the various comments on my sending the bibliography on French socialism

I sent the bibliography to the list for a variety of reasons. BITNET is supposed to be a means of scholarly communication; HISTORY is supposed to be an academic list. It does not take much experience with either to realize that such is often not to case. Instead, one reads a lot of mindless drivel or uninformed comments. Last spring, there were some very strongly-worded flames about the unprofessional nature of HISTORY. Although the list improved during the Fall, it was not reaching its potential.

One possible tactic to improve the list was to use it for scholarly purposes. Two scholarly purposes are (1) to provide bibliographies on a large and important subject, and (2) to demonstrate how such bibliographies can be compiled. Socialism is certainly an important historical topic; French socialism, although more narrow, has the merit of touching directly and indirectly on a wide variety of topics. That the bibliography was retrieved from the California OPAC was a demonstration of a valuable scholarly resource that such OPACS represent. Although some people on the list do not have access to INTERNET nor can they telnet (necessary to use online public access catalogs), the demonstration that such a resource exists might prove to be useful if they wanted to obtain this means of communication. That is, they could then go to the proper authorities with concrete proof of the valuable of being given access to the INTERNET. The worst possible case seemed to be that those not interested in the bibliography would be given the opportunity to be collegial by giving it to a colleague or colleagues who might be interested in such a subject.

Mississippi is the poorest state in the United States with a level of poverty below that of most Western European nations. Mississippi State University is a poor university. In spite of our relative poverty, we have a deep commitment to research and scholarship. Because we do, we provide faculty with unlimited access to electronic mail. We have no quotas, charges, or the like.

Thus, it never crossed my mind that sending the bibliography would cause problems for others. Certainly, there are enough problems in existence without contributing to them. Yes, I do regret the inconvenience and expense I created for others. And, of course, I will not do the same again.

One can hope that a time will come when colleges and universities will treat electronic mail as a fixed operating cost and that electronic mail within the academic community will truly become scholarly.

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 5366; Sat, 30 Dec 89 12:04:36 EST Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 22:12:41 EST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: Morris Fried Subject: Re: Bibliography To: don mabry In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 28 Dec 89 13:52:11 CST from

Let me add my voice to those who appreciate the efforts of Professor Mabry to raise the academic and scholarly level of the discussions on this list. True, the bibliography was extensive and it used up much of the allotted disc space that many of us have - but no real damage was done to anyone, as far as I can tell from the various negative comments. Mostly, people were annoyed at all those titles (and so many in French!) - Personally, I thought it was an astonishing presentation, both technically and from the point of view of the extensiveness of scholarly contribution in an area of serious concern, especially as this century draws to a close. I was delighted to scroll through those titles, and even make some notes, and I'm happy to know this kind of stuff can be accessed to our PCs, from California by way of Mississippi! Thanks, Don Mabry, you've made a valuable contribution to this list... Why not some followup, with annotated bibliographies, briefer by all means, but continuing along this path? Does anyone second the motion?

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 5721; Sat, 30 Dec 89 12:08:25 EST Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 22:58:38 CST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: Mark Olsen Subject: Bibliography To: don mabry

I would like to see more, possibly shorter, bibliographies left on a list server, such as HUMANIST's server. The hostile reaction to Mabry's bibliography was, in my opinion, far too harsh. He made a good faith effort to use the HISTORY list in a scholarly and responsible fashion which inconvenienced a couple of individuals whose e-mail software is particularly poorly written or are at institutions which are not supporting humanities computing at adequate levels. I trust that the reaction will not stop Mabry and others from attempting to make this list more useful.

Mark Olsen University of Chicago

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 6509; Sat, 30 Dec 89 12:19:27 EST Date: Sat, 30 Dec 89 07:17:00 EST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: Martin Ryle Subject: Re: Bibliography To: don mabry

One more voice in support of Don Mabry. The infamous bibliography demonstrates a strength of e-mail and of scholarly nets. Had I found it irrelevant to my interests, a simple "del 1-11" would have wiped it out of my account in short order. To satisfy all, is it possible to post such listings to the listserver, as is done on HUMANIST?

Martin Ryle University of Richmond ryle@urvax.urich.edu

id 9475; Sat, 30 Dec 89 15:24:18 EST Date: Sat, 30 Dec 89 15:16:16 EST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: Harold Wilson Subject: Bibliographies To: don mabry

Yes, Professor Mabry is demonstrating the future capacity of the system. At present our colleagues in the sciences are sending far larger files at 10 MB a second (about 10,000 pages). We are seeing the future and it works.

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 0186; Sun, 31 Dec 89 01:48:52 EST Date: Sun, 31 Dec 89 00:39:47 EST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: "John Bor Ox, AA" To: don mabry In-Reply-To: Bibliography

RAH !

Received: by TAUNIVM (Mailer R2.03B) id 8332; Sun, 31 Dec 89 18:36:12 IST Date: Sun, 31 Dec 89 18:28:53 IST From: Ronen Shapira Subject: Re: HISTORY & Files To: "Donald J. Mabry" In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 27 Dec 89 19:08:52 CST

Don No need to fuss about that. Just don't pay attention to the snarlers, let them snarl. You did a great job in sending the files, and many people will use it, even the snarlers. I don't know if you noticed, but the discussion you set did arouse attention from a lot of people. The problem with the list, I think, is that it's just to small. each of us has is own area of interst, and in fact there are very few problems common to the historians community as a whole. maybe this list should deal only with such subjects, and established smaller list with special interest, such a latin-america, the middle-east, the far-east, ancient history etc... and thenks for the files. Ronen

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 5230; Tue, 02 Jan 90 20:19:31 EST Date: Tue, 2 Jan 90 19:52:00 EST Reply-To: History Sender: History From: PROF NORM COOMBS Subject: Re: Bibliography To: don mabry

JUst came back from out of town for a few days. Was surprised that the bibliography brought Don negative replies. If this is not the place to share scholarly tools and concerns because of costs, then it seems to me that there

Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.05) id 8466; Wed, 03 Jan 90 13:39:54 EST Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 14:53:15 CET Reply-To: History Sender: History From: Thomas Zielke <113355@DOLUNI1> Subject: Re: Bibliography To: don mabry In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 29 Dec 89 22:12:41 EST from

Dear Morris Fried,

yes, of course : Don Mabry's bibliography WAS a magnificent demonstration of what good we can get from e-mailing. Nevertheless, it DID also slow down traffic on the whole net and therefore brought some inconvenience not only to some HISTORY-subscribents, but also to people who have nothing to do with this list.

I would of course encourage all those who have large bibliograpies at hand to inform other people about the availability of these collections, but I would prefer these masses of data to be sent only on request, either via private mail or via file-server, but never in the way Mabry did it.

In fact, we should seriously think of collecting the bibliographies at a file-server, as it would make them available for everyone at any time. A standardized form of bibliograpic entry would be welcome, I believe, as well as comments on the books.

Thomas Zielke Historisches Seminar Universit{t Oldenburg D-2900 Oldenburg

§MSG:FROM: ARKEAR01--ULKYVM TO: DJMABRY --MSSTATE 01/03/90 20:32:21 To: DJMABRY --MSSTATE Donald J. Mabry

FROM: The PC of Anne Kearney History Program
Phone: 584-0181 extension 353
SUBJECT: Bibliography
Don, I think you responded admirably to these over reactions. Having just gotten back in the field again, I had forgotten how much hostility some historians have lying just below the surface. How can we accomplish things when people respond with such emotion?

I am on a few other lists and the most hostile (flames?) responses are the ones on History. Thanks for getting things back on an even keel again!
-Anne Kearney Jefferson Community College Louisville, Kentucky ARKEAR01 at ULKYVM Bibliography

From: Perspectives (February 1991), Newsletter of the American Historical Association.

ELECTRONIC MAIL AND HISTORIANS

During the summer of 1990, a group of scholars debated a range of historical issues including the origins of agriculture, warfare, and walled cities. Members of this group also sought information about specific historical events and queried one another for help in locating sources and studies on specific topics. During the previous year, they had discussed women's history, the uses of history, socialism, the history of Scotland, the Crusades, the invasion of Panama, and the origins of the Cold War. They announced forthcoming conferences; solicited manuscripts for scholarly journals; posted notices of job openings; and aided one another in obtaining access to historical electronic databases. This everyday occurrence would be unremarkable except that the participants were physically located in the United States, France, the United Kingdom, Israel, Finland, Austria, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, Norway, Mexico, Brazil, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, each of these communications traveled from the contributor's locale to Finland and then back to all of the participants while a scholar in Germany served as postmaster. All are members of HISTORY@FINHUTC.BITNET, an electronic mail discussion group.

Although participation in an international electronic seminar such as HISTORY might appear to require the kind of knowledge possessed only by computer scientists, such is not the case. Anyone who uses a personal computer for word processing only has to learn a little more to use electronic mail (e-mail). E-mail is also easier and faster to use than the regular postal system. Instead of typing a letter or manuscript on a word processor, printing it, putting it into a stamped, addressed envelope, and then carrying the envelope to a mail box, one simply connects to the local mainframe computer, opens one's e-mail account, types the address of the recipient, and transfers the text to the mainframe. The mainframe then forwards the e-mail message to the recipient's mailbox, whether that mail box is on the local computer or on one ten thousand miles away. Normally, the message will reach the recipient's mailbox in seconds where it will remain until the recipient deletes it. If the message cannot be delivered, the system quickly notifies the sender.

The full dimensions of BITNET/NETNORTH/EARN (henceforth cited as BITNET) are staggering. BITNET (Because It's Time Network), NETNORTH (Canada), and EARN (European Academic and Research Network) connect some 2700 "nodes" (sites) located in colleges, universities, research institutes, and such organizations as the National Archives and the National Institutes of Health. BITNET nodes exist in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, every Common Market nation except the United Kingdom (which has its own e-mail system), Egypt, Yugoslavia, Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, among others. One can send messages through BITNET to any other e-mail system, be it academic, governmental, military, non-profit, or commercial, so long as that system is connected to the backbone network, the Internet.

For individuals, the cost of this service is low or non-existent. Member institutions pay for the computer time, software, systems operators, and the dedicated telephone line that connects institution "A" with institution "B." Thus, the real expense of maintaining these interconnected computers is borne by institutions, not the individual. E-mail accounts are almost always free to staff members and, often, to students. To use the BITNET system, individuals need to supply only their own personal computers, the modem, and the communications software necessary to telephone into the mainframe.

HISTORY@FINHUTC.BITNET (henceforth called HISTORY) is one of the many discussion groups or lists hosted on BITNET. Located at a Finnish university (FINHUTC) in the BITNET domain, HISTORY depends on a computer program called a listserv (list server) that receives all messages posted to it and then redistributes them to members of the list. These lists focus on specific areas of interest to the members who choose to subscribe. When one subscribes to a list, one automatically receives a copy of all messages posted to that list and can reply to any or all of those messages or post a new one for all other list members to read.

The topics discussed and the amount of member participation on HISTORY fluctuates. For example, someone raised the question of the definition of the pivotal events in history, certainly an issue of perennial concern to historians. Not surprisingly, the nature of the ensuing discussion was affected by each contributor's nationality and field of expertise, an important reminder that historical scholarship is not totally objective. While most list members simply read the postings, a few directed the discussion to the more narrow focus of the Vietnam War. Military historians and historians of 20th century United States politics came to the fore, as they and other list members dissected each other's arguments and cited authorities. This debate eventually led the group into a more general discussion of the origins of war, which, in turn, evolved into a discussion of the relationship between the origins of war and the advent of agriculture, the possible reasons for walled cities (in which archaeologists participated), the differing views of prehistory held by archaeologists and historians, and back to a discussion of the historical development of weaponry and tactics. Not long before the war-related discussion took place, members debated the meaning of "modern history" and how one can distinguish between "modern" and "pre-modern." That discussion was led by medievalists, early modern specialists, social historians, and political historians.

Participation in such discussions, either as a contributor or as a reader, is easy, intellectually stimulating, and informative, regardless of one's particular specialty. The very diversity of the group makes such discussions particularly enjoyable. List members include the range from persons eminent in their respective fields to persons who belong because they like historical studies. Specialists must explain their thoughts so that non-specialists can understand. Period specialists can test their ideas against those of specialists who study a different period. Generalists often ask the questions that open new lines of thought. One can read only those messages in which is interested or start the group on another topic by sending a message.

HISTORY is only one of the e-mail discussion groups of possible interest to historians. L-CHA@UQAM.BITNET, the e-mail discussion group of the Canadian Historical Association Conference on Computing, focuses on ways professional historians can better use computers, software, and electronic databases to teach and do research. These discussions are of interest to "traditional" historians, not just those who use quantitative techniques. Like HISTORY, L-CHA is used to post conference programs, requests for scholarly assistance, and job openings. C18-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU , an Internet list, is the discussion list for 18th Century Interdisciplinary Discussion. SHAKER@UKCC.UKY.EDU discusses The United Society of Believers. HUMANIST@BROWNVM.BITNET is a technique-oriented list for humanists trying to choose the most appropriate software, hardware, and analytical tools although its members also discuss issues of general interest to humanists. Latin American historians can join lists devoted to the region or to specific nations. The number of lists of potential interest to professional historians is almost as diverse as the historical profession itself, for lists exist not only on BITNET but on other electronic mail networks as well. The local e-mail administrator, usually a person in the campus computer support office, can provide the information necessary to poke around in the various networks and lists.

E-mail lists perform another valuable service, that of locating the e-mail addresses of persons with whom one wants to correspond. Although each posting sent to one's electronic mail box contains the sender's name and address, one often forgets to make a record of it. Many list members only read messages or contribute infrequently. Because there are millions of persons using e-mail, there is no directory of users. A BITNET node administrator can explain the means built into the system to provide some directory assistance. Lists, however, maintain a directory of their membership and that list can be retrieved electronically. One can then send a private message to a person on that list to continue a discussion in private, pursue scholarly collaboration, or obtain information.

HISTORY members have used contacts made on the list for a number of professional purposes. These include:

(1) Determining the operating hours of a distant library or archive one plans to visit.

(2) Obtaining a copy of a paper presented at a conference one could not attend or a quick copy of a journal article not locally available.

(3) Learning specific information about a job announcement.

(4) Getting help in identifying bibliographic and archival materials.

(5) Identifying possible grants.

(6) Coordinating a grant when the principal investigators are on different campuses.

(7) Prompting a contributor to an edited volume to respond.

The value of belonging to an e-mail discussion list varies. List members can include the full range of people one finds on a college or university setting. Some lists, depending upon the activity of the members, are serious electronic seminars. Others resemble a faculty cocktail party or a student bull session. To determine which is which, one has to join the list and read the postings. If one is not interested in what the list does, then one simply resigns from it.

The procedure for joining or leaving a BITNET list is simple. One sends a message to the Listserv at the node on which the list is housed. For HISTORY, one sends the message to Listserv@FINHUTC.BITNET. Leave the subject header blank. To join a list, put the following in the body of the note:

SUB HISTORY [your name]

Close the note and send it. To leave a list, in the body of the note type:

SIGNOFF HISTORY [your name]

For a different list, substitute its name for HISTORY.

The ultimate value of the HISTORY list, and others like it, depends upon the willingness of professional historians to participate. At present, HISTORY has only 140 members, yet there must be thousands of historians in the world who have personal computers, can afford a modem, and would be provided with an e-mail account upon request. Their participation would broaden and deepen the scope of the discussion. With a larger membership, more departments would be willing to post job and programmatic announcements, and more professional associations would be willing to post programs. HISTORY might become the means by which professional historians throughout the world could communicate rapidly with each other and create a true community of scholars, unbound by institutional or national constrictions.

HISTORY's existence also suggests the need for more e-mail discussion groups for historians. Although its general nature is a strength, it is not an adequate forum for historians with particular interests, for they have to handle mail of little or no interest to them. New lists should be created to serve the specific interests within the international community of historians and those with related interests. Why not have one list for medievalists, another for specialists in French history, and still another for women's history? HISTORY could still serve as a general list while these other lists focus on more limited topics. Managing a list requires a few hours a week, but surely there are persons willing to perform this professional service just as there are colleges and universities willing to support such an endeavor because it would give the institution greater visibility.

In the meantime, HISTORY will continue to provide food for thought, contact with historians throughout the world, and, at times, a lot of amusement as contributors square off against each other as academics are so apt to do.

Donald J. Mabry